Folks, I get into many discussions running Indieheaven.com and interacting with thousands of Christian indie musicians and artists. It amazes me how misguided some of these folks are. For example, here’s a discussion I had with one artist over on my Facebook profile (http://www.facebook.com/keithmohr) Its quite apparent to me to see why things are not happening for this artist. They expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter, and do not understand investment and returns.

Here’s how the discussion went:

Ann:
Honestly I’ve been writing and recording songs for 20 years and all it does is bring people to me wanting me to pay them for promotion…No one supports the arts anymore…They only want to get money out the artists now…No will promote your music unless you pay them to do it….Where’s the love of God in that…it just ain’t cheap anymore to be artist…you’ll save money if you don’t do it…LOL. I just do it cause I love it…and I believe God wants me to.

Keith:
Service providers should be paid for their service regardless if they are Christian or not. For example, if you have a leaky faucet and you call on “Jesus Plumbers” should they fix your leak for free because they love God? I don’t get that mindset. If anything, you should pay them double to support THEIR craft.

Why should they provide you services for free and why would you insinuate they don’t love God because they want to be paid? Thats a welfare mentality and runs rampant in the indie Christian music scene. Those who complain about this are the same ones who complain churches wont pay them to play. Whats up with that?

Most indies cant get traction because their content isn’t good, and people will reject it (especially the world) if it stinks.

Ann:
You know Keith…Service providers should be paid…but only if the artist is being paid…the problem is…No body is paying for music… Hardly no body will buy music anymore…If an artist can’t sell music or make money at it…they can’t pay the service providers…and most of these service providers want fees paid by the artist when the artist music is NOT selling.

I have would have no problem paying service providers if my music was selling…but it not…and neither is most other unknown artists…So they just pay fees and make no money off of there music…I wish the general public support unknown artists….but they don’t…They don’t listen to unknown music cause they think it would be more public if it was any good…but that is not the case….There’s lots of great music that people don’t take the time to hear or even give it a chance cause that artist has never been heard of…Just my opinion.

Keith:
That is not a rational mindset. For example.. If I am broke, but I need food..According to you, It would be OK for me to walk into Krogers, fill my cart with food, and tell the cashier.. “I know you love God, and I am a Christian, so therefore, I should be given this food..” That is not rational. Ann, you and all Indie artists are your own record label. And if you want to see an increase, you MUST invest. Now, that doesn’t mean only money.. it can be your time, your skills, craft. Making the music is STEP 1. Most stop at that step. Why? Because they think God will do the hard work for them. He won’t do that work for you. It requires obedience and sacrifice. It’s just the way it is. What you and many others have is called an “Entitlement Mindset.”

Maybe the reason why your music and most music isn’t selling is because it has no value to the consumer. If you are doing what you do for money, that is something you will need to figure out. I teach indies that professional vision = ProVision. Mediocre vision = mediocre results.

Ann:
I have no clue what you are talking about….”Entitlement Mindset” makes no sense to me…and I would work harder in the music field if I could…but I have to make a living at medical research cause music would never provided for me…but I also think medical research is another thing that is of God and what God wants me to do…bless ya Keith

Keith:
right, so you dabble at your music and expect huge returns. See, thats the issue. 4+4 doesn’t equal 8 million, but for Christian musicians, they think it should because God called them, they are special, and everyone should serve them. To tell service providers they can’t be paid because you aren’t being paid is quite irrational. Being a Christian is about being a servant, and trusting God for His provision. Again, that comes from having PROfessional VISION. It’s a combination of those 2 words. Just trying to help get the lights turned on for ya.

Ann:
I don’t expect hugh returns on my music…I just get tried of people coming after me and asking me to give them money to promote my music or put it on their webiste or blast it out to radio stations or things like that…I’ve done it to many times…it don’t sell my music or provide me any income…and they probably don’t even listen to the music they send out…they just want the money the artists will give them to send it out….They are in to make money…and that is fine…but I ain’t rich enough to give them what little I have.

Keith:
well, thats their business, what do you expect? We’re marketed to, and propositioned ALL DAY LONG everywhere. What offends you is that they are asking for compensation, when you are not being compensated for your music. That’s not their fault, is it? I get indies who come to me all the time asking me to visit MySpace to listen to their music and tell them what I think.. for nothing.. What they are really telling me is that my time to them is not valuable, and that I sit around all day with nothing to do and tell them what I think of their music. Sorry.. no can do. I will do this however, when they join my Indieheaven site. I value my time too much to give it away, plus, I serve my members of Indieheaven, who understand what mutual beneficial relationships are all about. Most dont get that.
3 minutes ago ·

William Added:
Keith I think you have it backwards. Why would an indie join your group if you wont take the time to listen to their music? I would want to join something that had the capacity to recognize my contribution before I joined not after. Personally I would never put you in a position to promote my tunes if you didn’t like it.

Keith:
William, Indieheaven is for ALL artists who see value in what WE provide them. We are a tool, like a shovel. I don’t dig holes for indies. I provide them an excellent shovel. Its up to them to dig their holes. However, I do enjoy helping artists who are helping themselves.

Ann:
Good point William….Artist aren’t doing well in music today….and we would like to be able to be heard…but can’t afford all the fees the service providers want us to pay up front…if they would just take procentages of our sales instead of making us pay regular fees than artists would have a better changes at getting started.

Keith:
Ann, how much are you making in your music mission today? What is 20% of 0?? Ann, you don’t come in contact with nearly as many indie artists as I come in contact with, and there are some who are doing very well. What are the keys to them doing well? 1- They take their music and mission seriously. They do not dabble at it. They are not lukewarm in their mission. 2- They are producing content of excellence. They don’t suck. 3- They understand that God requires obedience and they are spirit led. They seek God’s direction for their mission, but they don’t expect God to be their personal Genie or ATM card.

Ann:
The way they are setting it up now is mostly just taking money upfront from artists and than when they get no sales…The artists have to pull their music off sites cause it’s just costing them money in fees…Until the public starts paying for music again…artists are going to be hurting…

I feel like the internet will hopefully improve with time….and help music artists with the problem of free downloads and stealing of their work….but it’s going to take time….and the public has to be able to hear a song before they are going to be willing to pay 99 cents or something for it…I’ll get better…It already has gotten a little better.

Keith:
I bet you have no idea how much I have invested in my Indieheaven site. Hows $250,000 sound to you? Thats about what I have personally invested into the coding and infrastructure of Indieheaven. God didn’t drop that money in my lap, I earned it.

There are 2 ways an internet site can make money. 1- Membership. 2- Advertising. No one is doing anything for free, when it comes to working with musicians.

Ann:
I’ve said this to you before Keith and I’ll say it again…Just because you think something SUCKS…Doesn’t mean everybody in the world thinks it does…There are lots of songs I don’t like that other people love…So people’s opinion of what SUCKS means nothing to me…I don’t degrade other people’s art…but I do degrade people who make money off the artists when the artists when the artists make no money…The artists deserve to get paid as much as the service people do…and if the artist don’t sell anything than why should the service people get paid?…In that case they are just making money off a poor artist’s dreams….Just my opinion.

Keith:
If an artist isn’t getting paid, there are reasons for that. There are many, many artists who are paid for their music. I find quite a few christian musicians tend to not be teachable and argue rational thought process because they think God will do it all for them because they are “special,” and lump people and service providers in with that. Im my opinion that is irrational. I happen to earn PROVISION from artists I serve because I am worth it. I EARN it.

Keith:
People aren’t stupid Ann, they know what has value and what doesn’t have value. People generally wont tell an artist that they suck, but you better believe they are thinking it. See, people don’t think like God:) God can use even the worst content and someone out there will have a positive impact from it. However, those will be isolated cases. Sounds like to me you want widespread acceptance and resulting income from your content. Is it worth it?

Ann:
No…I’m an artist who always wanted to do music…but always had people comming after me to give them money…and I have do it…because it was a dream to me…but I never made any money at making music…I only put into it…so when I put my music on the internet and get tons of emails from websites that want me to give them money to promote or send my songs to radio station…I have been there and done that…and it only took my money and gave me nothing in return…I have 3 children to feed and I’m trying to finish college…I’m not rich….I can’t keep doing that even though I want alot of people to hear my music…To me in order to do that people always want money from me…I guess you have to be really rich and really talented to in music…

Someday I’ll be a doctor…and I believe God wants me to be a doctor…it’s my calling in life…but I also believe God wants me to spread my music around cause it has a good message…but everybody wants money from me to do that…

You can even gets magazines to review your music without paying them…Sad really…

I have heard some of the greatest music of my life with wonderful messages that glorify God…That was never heard or played on the radio and never will be cause either the artist or whoever made it or supported didn’t have the right connections or money to put it out here…..Like I said….Sad

Keith:
I do understand your concern and you have a valid point.. however.. you know the old saying, “it takes money to make money.” It’s true.. if you want to see an increase in what you are doing, and be more successful at it, it takes an investment. The hard part is knowing what to invest in. First, you invest into yourself. That means your craft.. (songwriting, musicianship, grasp of the English language, etc.) Then, you have to invest into your content. (your music production, your pictures, bio, etc..). Then, you have to decide if you are going to promote and who to promote with. This is where many indies stop. They either think God will do ALL the promotion, or He’ll bring someone or something their way to promote for them. In 99% of the time, this does not happen. The reason is simple.. why would anyone invest into an artist who has not invested FIRST into themselves? Why would someone think someone else will do this for them? Thats delusional and irrational.

Keith:
Ann, you state you want to be a doctor.. GREAT.. I wonder if there will be some God loving college out there willing to give you a Free ride.. and if they do give you a free ride, will you value it? Imagine if you woke up one day wanting to be a surgeon.. you don’t grab a knife and start hacking at someones chest, you’ll kill em and you’ll end up in prison. No.. you go and get trained and equipped. However, I see many indies who can barely write a sentence, play all 6 strings of their guitar, and sing on key who think they should have millions of adoring fans, play main stage at the largest Christian festival in the world, and be on every radio station.. just because they are a Christian. Hello??? Whats up with that?

Ann:
I did it for years Keith…It can cause you to go homeless and starve to death…I went to college for music you know…and I couldn’t make a living at it…So now I’m going back to become a doctor and finish my PhD…Hopefully I’ll be able to feed my children.

I’m getting a PhD…for medical research…Music isn’t as stable as Medicine is….It’s hard to making a living in Music…There is alot of artists out there giving and giving and never making anything…You just have to do cause you love it…

Keith:
Ann, you might have made some bad decisions in the past, based on a desire to be someone famous.. I don’t know.. but you can’t lump every service provider in with the sharks that are out there. There are some who have a heart and a desire to serve artists. The disconnect is that indie artists ARE a record label, its their own label. And labels know in order to see an increase, they must market and promote their artists. The trick is this. how do they recoup their investment? Over 90% of the time, they do not recoup. This is why labels are going bankrupt. Labels these days need to be wise with their investments.. that includes money and the artists they work with.

Keith:
I agree, as artists, do it because you love it.. and be smart about what you do. Make sure to investigate service providers and phony labels that want to take advantage of you. And most importantly.. artists need to stop dreaming about being famous, and simply go and do what they love to do. If you enrich the lives of people, they will follow you. THis is why I tell indies to stop trying to land a whale (the music industry) and simply catch minnows (people). Those minnows will grow into fish, and they can feed you for a long time!

Ann:
No…boy you put words that just don’t make sense….The music biz isn’t in good shade right now….Artists (even the famous ones) are having a hard time selling their music…and it’s always been that way…It’s usually a short ride even for the ones who do make it…I’m just tried of people trying to get money out of me…I’m not rich…but I still wish I could get a larger group of people to hear my music…and I don’t care if I don’t make any money on it…they dont’ have to pay me…just STOP trying to make money off of me…and other artist like me who arent’ wealthy….Just my opinion….

Music will never make me money…but it will bring people out trying to get mine….You don’t know how many people have contacted me asking me to give them money to do something with my music…All they do is take my money and run…

Keith:
Ann, just as FANS are your demographic, ARTISTS are service providers demographic. It’s just the way it is, and the internet is full of dreamers and wanna-be’s and sharks. It’s the perfect storm for grand delusions.

Keith:
So Ann, to wrap this up.. you are stating you find it sad that there are service providers out there who want to make income from their service, yet.. YOU are upset that YOU and other artists like YOU, can’t make money at their music.. What’s up with that logic?

let’s be independent… together!
keith mohr
president
indieheaven- [ artist profile | distribution ]
broken records- [ artist label ]
indie impact [ promotion | radio | booking | showcase ]
indie university [ education | articles | videos | conference ]
mohr management- [ artist management ]
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I have an analogy for ya to ponder…

The Christian music industry represents a whale. The artist is the fisherman. The music is the bait. The artist is still trying to catch the whale, but instead of the whale being far offshore where the artist can’t reach them (like it used to be), the whale is BEHIND them on the freakin BEACH. Meanwhile, right at the artist’s feet are millions of minnows. Those minnows represent PEOPLE. If the artist wasn’t so busy trying to catch the whale and looking at the horizon for a whale, they’d see those minnows and reach down and catch some. What’s up with that?

What say you? Share your thoughts here.
let’s be independent… together!
keith mohr
president
indieheaven- [ artist profile | distribution ]
broken records- [ artist label ]
indie impact [ promotion | radio | booking | showcase ]
indie university [ education | articles | videos | conference ]
mohr management- [ artist management ]
————————————————–
Check out our other sites
inspiresong – [ songwriter resources | retreat | contest ]
ih news – [ indie news ]
————————————————–
networking sites
Be My Friend on Facebook
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Be a Fan on Facebook!

There is a tremendous amount of self promotion “noise” on the www with many thousands of artists spending the bulk of their time trying to get people to engage them online, and who try and win people over from around the globe.

Most of these artists should spend less time telling the world how good they are, and actually get good.

In the old days, before the www, artists won fans over by their live performances.
This has not changed, although the www has given the illusion that artists can skip the “paying your dues” process. Many artists mistakenly assume by producing content it means people will automatically engage, even if the content is mediocre. This is not true, it pushes people away.

Artists need to be serving their local communities, whether it be in a church, or elsewhere. Artists need to build a strong local following, and then branch out from there. I see artists trying to do this from the outside in, and it does not work. It MUST happen from the inside out. Inside being the inner core rings of influence.

My advice:
Spend less time frittering your time away online with shameless self promotion, and spend more time writing songs, practicing your craft, and learning the Word and how to communicate effectively (if you want to be a minister). And please stop tweeting about things that have nothing to do with your artistry. No one cares what you are eating, or doing if it is not directly associated with your music mission.
Keep up the Excellent Faith-Work!
let’s be independent… together!
keith mohr
president
indieheaven- [ artist profile | distribution ]
broken records- [ artist label ]
indie impact [ promotion | radio | booking | showcase ]
indie university [ education | articles | videos | conference ]
mohr management- [ artist management ]
————————————————–
Check out our other sites
inspiresong – [ songwriter resources | retreat | contest ]
ih news – [ indie news ]
————————————————–
networking sites
Be My Friend on Facebook
Follow me on Twitter!
Be a Fan on Facebook!

I have been a believer in Christ since 1986, which is half of my life. Now that I am older and wiser, I am learning a thing or two about the importance of relationships. Before I dive into my thoughts on the subject, I thought I would share about one particular relationship with the publisher of Christian Musician Magazine.

I read in the last issue, Christian Musician Magazine’s own Bruce Adolph is celebrating his 15th year in publishing. Congrats Bruce! That in itself is an amazing feat of extremely hard work and hard faith. These days, many print magazines are no longer being printed, some are available online, or they have gone out of publication. I am amazed at Bruce and the dedication he has shown over the years in his mission, his commitment to Christian musicians, and his extraordinary people skills. Way to go, Bruce!

I first met Bruce back in 1996. I was working at a music store in Harrisburg, PA and picked up the phone, ready to sell a keyboard or pro audio item to the person on the other end of the line. However, on the other end this time was a salesman. “That’s what I am,” I thought to myself as I listened to him sell me on the benefits of taking out an ad in an event guide for a Christian music festival called, Creation Fest. Bruce was very good at selling ads, he has that way about him!

I was familiar with the festival, having attended it several years before. As Bruce was sharing about the ad, my wheels started turning. I thought to myself, “Hmm, I wonder who provides the music gear the bands use on stage at the Creation Festival?” After Bruce finished his sales pitch, I asked him that very question. I shared that if they needed any help, I could round up what they needed, drive a truck to the festival, and set it up.

So, Bruce being the connector he is, hooked me up with the founder and director of the festival, Tim Landis. I called Tim right away and asked him about their gear needs. It just so happened that the source they had been using in previous years could not provide everything the festival needed. Great, let me help! So, Tim gave me his list, I got prices, and got the gig! I rented a big Ryder truck the day before the festival, loaded up the gear, and drove the few hours to Agape Farm.

After arriving at the festival, I met Bruce and we connected immediately. I made myself available to help Bruce at his booth, which made Bruce happy, because he was always super busy meeting people, schmoozing, and doing what Bruce does best, relationship building. Serving and building relationships are keys to blessings!

Ok, this story is getting long, but here is the cool point I want to share with you. Through meeting and serving Bruce way back in 1996, I met Charlie Peacock, who was in the next booth over from me promoting his “At The Crossroads” book, and whom I would have speak at one of my indie music conferences in Nashville 10 years later.

Little did I know the very next year, in 1997 I would get the call to again provide gear for Creation Festival, and that the festival would be moved to Hershey Park, PA because of flooding at the Agape Farm. Little did I know I would run into a representative for Tascam, Doug Gould, whom I had first met while working at another music store in Washington, DC 10 years earlier. Tascam provided recording gear to record the festival live. Another person I met that year at Creation Fest 1997 was Joe Battaglia, who asked me to mix down the live recordings. Little did I know those mixes would be used for a documentary shown on PBS called, “Message in the Music.”

Little did I know that at Creation Festival 1997 I would meet a studio owner who had a great studio I could work out of, so I did. I stayed there for 6 years, and took over the studio and ran it on my own after his business went flat.

Little did I know then that six years later, in 2003 I would make the move to Music City, Nashville, TN and start a new indie music organization called “Indieheaven,” hold successful music conferences, and see the entire CCM industry be turned upside down 6 years later, in 2009.

Little did I know in 1997 that Bruce would ask me to write a column for this very magazine, one that I am still writing for! Little did I know Bruce would start his own conferences and ask me to teach at the main conference in Redmond, WA the past 4 years. Little did I know in 2010 I will be teaching at all of his CMS conferences!

Through that one seemingly insignificant phone call, taken in a small music store, would I find myself still enjoying the fruit from the tree, planted from the seed, I call “Bruce Adolph.” I could go on and on and on about relationship seeds in my life that have sprouted, taken root, and grown into a vibrant tree full of fruit. Fruit that has not only fed myself, but others. That is how you can tell fruit is good, by how many it feeds. The more it feeds, the better the fruit.

I can also share about seeds I have neglected, that may or may not have been planted, may not have taken root in fertile soil, that may not have been tended to during the sapling time. That may have been forgotten about when fruit appeared and not harvested. Fruit that withered on the vine and were eaten by birds. I wonder now what might have transpired had I cultivated those relationships?

Relationships are a lot like seeds, and produce fruit if we tend to them, nurture them, and even prune them from time to time. I encourage you to be open to planting seeds of relationship, and tend to those that have already sprouted. Do not forsake the most important relationship, which is with Christ Jesus in the center, and then the relationship with your family, and then people you know and who know you. I learned that lesson as well, there are rings of relationships, much like a bullseye. Concentrate on the innermost rings and do not neglect them.

You will find that God uses relationships to create His-Story, and Your-Story. Your story becomes part of history! The more relationships you create and cultivate, the more that happens in your life and mission. I have seen this first hand! So, what are you waiting for? Can you relate?
Keep up the excellent faith-work!
let’s be independent… together!
keith mohr
president
indieheaven- [ artist profile | distribution ]
broken records- [ artist label ]
indie impact [ promotion | radio | booking | showcase ]
indie university [ education | articles | videos | conference ]
mohr management- [ artist management ]
————————————————–
Check out our other sites
inspiresong – [ songwriter resources | retreat | contest ]
ih news – [ indie news ]
————————————————–
networking sites
Be My Friend on Facebook
Follow me on Twitter!
Be a Fan on Facebook!

Check out archived shows from “The Christian Independent Artist Show.” On each show, IU Founder Keith Mohr interviewed various industry experts and successful independent artists and also shared his thoughts on issues pertinent to the Christian Independent Music scene.

Show #1- Original Air Date: 9/14/2009 7:00 PM
Top 10 Critical Issues for Christian Independent Artists
On this show Keith Mohr shared thoughts on the Top 10 most critical issues for Christian Independent Artists who are on a mission from God to share their music and message with the masses.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show1.mp3

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Show #2- Original Airdate: 9/21/2009 7:00 PM
Interview with Naima
Our special guest on this show will be independent artist/creative entrepreneur “Naima”. She is a full time indie artist who works hard at her mission. Naima has also published a book about the mistakes she made building her music ministry. We’ll discuss what she has learned, and her thoughts on being a full timer.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show2.mp3

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Show #3- Original Air Date: 9/28/2009 7:00 PM
Interview with Bob Morrison of Chart Noise
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr will be available to take your questions, share helpful info on the Independent Christian Music Mission, and about the benefits of being an Indieheaven member. Keith will also interview live Bob Morrison of “Chart Noise.” Bob is a consultant and artist manager who has lots of music industry experience.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show3.mp3

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Show #4- Original Air Date: 10/5/2009 7:00 PM
Interview with Randy Cox- Publishing and Songwriting
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Randy Cox. Randy is a legend in the Christian music publishing industry, having formed MeadowGreen Publishing back in the 1980s. MeadowGreen was Michael W Smith and Amy Grant’s first publisher. Randy talked about what publishing is, how a songwriter can find a publisher, and what he is doing these days. Randy is a great guy and this is an excellent show!

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show4.mp3

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Show #5- Original Air Date: 10/12/2009 7:00 PM
Interview with Nathan Clark George- Full TIme Indie Artist
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Indieheaven member, Nathan Clark George about his music, life and mission. Nathan is a full time indie artist who travels the USA with his family sharing his music and message with many. Nathan shared about how he accomplishes his mission, and much more!

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show5.mp3

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Show #6- Original Air Date: 10/19/2009 7:00 PM
Social Media- Make it Happen for You!
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Theron Hatch from CIRQ MEDIA. We discussed the Wild Wild West, better known as the WWW and how, if you are smart, can broaden the scope of your musical influence.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show6.mp3

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Show #7- Original Air Date: 10/26/2009 7:00 PM
Music Production and Artist Development
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Creative Soul President, Eric Copeland. Eric is an in demand producer who does an excellent job developing indie artists and taking them to the next level. We discussed music production, artist development and much more.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show7.mp3

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Show #8- Original Air Date: 11/2/2009 7:00 PM
Branding and the importance of Content
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Christian Hildago, President of Navigation Advertising. They discussed the importance of branding, what it is, and how if done right can benefit the independent artist.

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show8.mp3

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Show #9- Original Air Date: 11/9/2009 7:00 PM
Interview with Full time Indie Artist- Jeff Steinberg
Indieheaven president, Keith Mohr interviewed Indieheaven member, Jeff Steinberg. (http://www.tinygiant.com) Jeff has been a full time touring independent artist for over 30 years! Jeff shared his tips and info on how he has survived this long!

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show9.mp3

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Show #10- Original Air Date: 11/16/2009 7:00 PM
Keith Mohr Interview
I interviewed myself on this show and shared about my recent trip to Seattle to speak at the Christian Music Summit. I also shared the latest info on My InspireSong Songwriter Retreat and my Indie University Indie Music Conference. Plus, latest happenings in the CCM Industry, Indieheaven and so much more!

You can also download it by right clicking this link and selecting “save as”.
http://www.indieuniversity.com/mp3/cias/show10.mp3

let’s be independent… together!
keith mohr
president
indieheaven- [ artist profile | distribution ]
broken records- [ artist label ]
indie impact [ promotion | radio | booking | showcase ]
indie university [ education | articles | videos | conference ]
mohr management- [ artist management ]
————————————————–
Check out our other sites
inspiresong – [ songwriter resources | retreat | contest ]
ih news – [ indie news ]
————————————————–
networking sites
Be My Friend on Facebook
Follow me on Twitter!
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I have been thinking alot lately about “rings of influence.” It’s like a Bullseye, with your innermost core being the red center, and outer rings radiating from the center. Relationships in the inner core are those who you know the best, and those who really know you. That could be family, business associates, and close friends. Going outward from the center, the next ring would consist of those you know, but not very well, and those who have a working knowledge of you. Next ring would be those you do not know, but those who know about you, like a fan, or people who learn about you. For example, I have on my email list about 50,000 people. They all know about Indieheaven, many know who I am, but I do not know most of those people. And outside of that ring would be the rest of the universe. People you do not know, and those who do not know about you.

I encourage all who read this to create your bulls-eye and determine who falls into what ring. Here’s why.. I have been sharing with one of our Indieheaven members the importance of influencing the innermost core and how to balance it with trying to influence people in the universe. As good a tool the internet is, it has provided an incredible vehicle for artists types who tend to have a “visions of grandeur” M.O. to invest a large portion of their time trying to impact the universe and gain “friends.” This has proven to be a time wasting venus trap to artists as they neglect those in their inner core. It goes along with the “bigger is better” mindset artistic types have, when in reality, better is better.

I shared this information with our member, I will refine this as I have time, but you should get the concept of influencing your core and rings of influence.

“It is important to act local, but think global. God can do whatever God wants to do with us, but I am a firm believer that it is up to us to create the momentum that He then takes and multiplies. I am glad you are impacting your community! This is also wise, because as you impact and enrich those who are in your inner core and inner ring of influence, they then share about you to their inner cores, and it spreads out like ripples on a pond. Imagine throwing a handful of rocks into a pond and seeing the ripples of influence emanating from each stone. The key is that each of the stones in your hand must be inner core relationships. The greater the influence you have in your inner core relationships, the larger the stones and the larger the ripples.”

I also shared this, after they lamented that it is difficult to get people to engage and comprehend their mision.

“I understand where you are coming from, but it is what it is. I still run into this every single day, and I have been hammering away at my mission non-stop 80 hours per week at least since 1997.

We’re always going to run into credibility issues with people. People simply are very closed minded to new things. It is our job to win them over. To convert them into our kingdom, so to speak. And that happens by word of mouth. Look at the way Indieheaven has grown. I do not go out and approach artists who are outside my core of influence and try to convince them to join Indieheaven. I wait until they come to us, and then… then they are in our outermost ring of influence. They come to us because our inner core has told them about us and shared that we are a valuable resource, or because we treat people with respect, etc.. Whatever the reason be, it is through word of mouth that people come to us. When they come to us, I spring into action.

You need to do the same thing. Look at the relationships in your life and determine who fits into what ring. It is a great exercise to do regardless. Then, figure out ways to impact those inner core people. Then, radiate out from there. This is also biblical. Look at how the disciples spread the gospel message. They started in the town their leader was killed in.. where people knew what had happened. They passionately and excellently shared the message, and people were converted. They then radiated out from there. That is how it spread. As time went on, the messengers used the technology of the times to share the Gospel message. We must use the technology available to us to spread our message, which really is the Gospel message, just delivered in our own special way because of our content.

Same goes for our missions. We start with those who know us, we focus on them. We do however, have this incredible tool called the internet, which allows us to get our content into a worldwide medium. We cant neglect that, but we should not focus on that. I would say 75% inner core, 25% out side your cores would be a good ratio of where you place your focus.”

Get started on doing your mission better, and the bigger will come!

Let’s Be Independent… together!
keith mohr

I have been working with Christian independent artists since 1997 full time, literally thousands of indies have come through my Indieheaven organization. I do my very best to help everyone, regardless of where they are in their music missions. Some have 10 CD projects out and tour full time and have great music and content. Some… well, some are trying to play all 6 strings on their guitar:)

One thing I have noticed is that all indies, regardless of their level are looking for something. It could be money, could be opportunity, exposure, bookings, radio airplay, you name it..

My question to you is what do YOU need in your music mission? Share with me your needs, I want to know how best to serve independent artists.

I’ll pick one responder to this post who will receive a free 1 year membership on my Indieheaven.com site. Thats a $240 value! And a FREE 1 year subscription to Christian Musician Magazine. Not too shabby! And, I’ll call you and talk with you about your music mission and see how I can help you!

All you need to do is leave a thoughtful and detailed comment to this post, make sure to leave your email address so I can contact you. Thanks for sharing your heart and needs with me!

Let’s Be Independent… together!
keith mohr

I recently gave an interview to Christopher Harding of “The Examiner”. I thought you would be interested in what I communicated concerning the Christian music industry, the indie scene and other interesting tidbits. Enjoy!
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How do you describe Indieheaven (what’s your elevator pitch)?

Indieheaven is the leading independent musician/artist resource agency serving thousands of indie artists non-stop since 1997. Indieheaven provides a comprehensive set of tools for bands, singers, songwriters, musicians to promote, market and distribute their music and display their content on a safe, professional, and established website.

Indieheaven’s reputation has been earned through impeccable service and attention to the needs of their members and customers. Indieheaven partners with its members to help them increase the scope of their music missions, providing ala carte label services, advanced content management/sales accounting systems and exclusive promotional opportunities. Indieheaven also provides an active community called The IH Network where members have full pass access to valuable content.

Indieheaven also is an online music store, where fans can purchase physical CDs, and digital songs/digital albums made available by members. Members are paid 100% of the gross sales of their music. Indieheaven is member supported, with no irrelevant or offensive advertising.

How did it come about?

I started my online musician resource/services/community in 1997 after realizing the internet would change the music business and empower artists to reach directly to the consumer. I also realized artists desired community and support services. I’ve always been one to herd cats (I used to bring strays home to my mother when I was a kid), so I figured if I put together a set of tools and services, the kitties would come for the milk. And lo and behold, they did! I am all about helping people succeed, so this is a natural passion for me. I saw a need, created the solution, and cultivated relationships. I still do this to this day.

Why should artists sign up?

Because Indieheaven provides the very best deal for independent artists period. Where else can they add unlimited content, sell their CDs, digital downloads and get ALL the sales income, get distribution to i-tunes, Amazon MP3 and many others as a free benefit of membership, and have at their disposal someone who speaks their language and wants to help them succeed without owning them or wrapping them up into contracts? Indieheaven is like a country club for serious golfers. Join it and come play on a really nice course.

Is it for any artist or Christian artists only?

We focus on the Christian artist. This does not mean we cater only to artists who play in churches and sing kum-ba-yah around a campfire eating smores. Our members span the gamut in their music. Some play in bars and clubs, some in churches, some in their basements. It’s all good. I had a satan worshiper once try to signup, he was very high in the satanic church of East L.A., but once he realized Indieheaven membership wasn’t free, he left post haste. By the way, he had no problem with Indieheaven promoting Christian music. We did have some interesting discussions. I almost got the guy saved:)

How would describe the state of Christian music today?

Well.. pretty much like the mainstream music business. It’s in a state of disarray as the business model of old does not work anymore. The Christian music industry patterned itself after the mainstream music industry. We all know the music industry has used artists as cans of oil to lubricate its machinery for years. And artists have used the industry as their sugar daddy for years. In my opinion, there should be a higher standard in Christian music. Sadly, there isn’t. It will not be until artist and industry understand prosperity and success come through mutual beneficial relationship. A “what’s in it for me, forget about you” mindset permeates the CCM industry because of fear and control. After years of worshiping the almighty dollar, the CCM industry is just about dead because the almighty has gone missing. This is a very hard statement that won’t win me many friends, but it is the truth. Talk to industry people, talk to artists, talk to studio cats, and they will tell you the level of greed and distrust in the business is very high. That saddens me, personally. This has nothing to do with being a Christian, or even Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with flawed human beings operating in a flawed system. It’s to be expected when your business model is based on mafia mob practices.

What genres within Christian music are doing the best in terms of sales and influence?

I know worship music has been the hot thing in CCM the past 5 years, as the church has been the main consumer of Christian music and that has kept the labels in business. That will run its course the next few years because there are only so many 4 chord worship songs and so many words that describe how Jesus loves me left. Most worship songs have melodies that can be sung by a second grader. I’m waiting for the backlash to start, where the church loathes worship music produced by the industry because of its lack of creativity. It’s coming. At least indie artists can produce what is on their hearts, which can be quite thought provoking and creatively compelling. Now, if we can get the indie artists to stop creating for the commercial arena and create for the love of creation. That’s for another question:)

How has the influence of major labels (and their having acquired some Christian labels over the last decade) affected the direction of Christian music for labels?

I do not operate in that world, but I’ve heard from former industry types the reason Christian labels partnered with mainstream labels was to increase funding, and increase the possibility that its product would “cross over” to the mainstream consumer. This has happened on a few occasions. Mercy Me’s song, “I Can Only Imagine,” and a few Michael W. Smith songs were mainstream hits. Switchfoot also had a hit with “Dare You To Move,” and Carrie Underwood’s song, “Jesus Take the Wheel” was a big song in the country industry. A good song will cross over if it connects with people and has the right promotion behind it. But for the most part, if a song is too “Christian” with too strong of language, it will be rejected by the mainstream. After all, the message of Jesus is quite offensive to those who do not yet believe. Even songs marketed to the CCM demographic have become “sugary” because of the fear Christians will reject it if the songs are not safe, happy, and promoting Christianity as a self help philosophy where God gives you everything you want, and keeps to Himself what you need. I’ve actually heard more straightforward Christian songs in the country world lately that say it like it is and bring home the goods. Life sucks, but there’s hope in Jesus!

How about for artists?

The age of the transparent dangling carrot is just about over. Labels no longer can promise artists the moon and deliver death valley. No longer will artists put themselves in a position to be abused by men in suits who control the artists content and direction and hold their intellectual property hostage if they don’t do what they tell them to do. Now, its the WWW, or the Wild, Wild West where every gun slinging, guitar playing cowboy/cowgirl can rope himself some fans if they are out on the range working the fields. Honestly, it’s a great time to be an independent artist, if.. and this is a big if.. if the artist works it. I see many indie artists who think working it is hanging on MySpace or Facebook all night taking silly quizzes and padding their friends lists. I see many artists with bad content screaming at the top of their lungs, “look what I can do,” when they should be off line learning how to play all 6 strings of a guitar and practicing their craft. Bigger has overtaken better for many online. How foolish, anyone with half a brain knows better brings bigger, not the other way around. The WWW has been a blessing and a curse. It provides the same platform for anyone with a desire to be a star a place to publish their content. However, there is very little great, a bit of good and a ton of mediocre music online. Remember the old days when the only people who knew the garage band down the street stunk were those who lived within earshot of the garage? Now, everyone knows!

What’s your take on the Independent Christian Music biz?

I am not anti-industry. I believe it has a place for some artists (who are ready for it) by providing credibility, and helps consumers discover new music by providing a filter mechanism. What really gets to me and is a pet peeve is artists who think they are ready for the industry when they aren’t. Artists spend way too much time telling the world how great they are, when they aren’t. I have been telling indie artists for a long time to stop chasing after the people in the back of the stage (ie: labels, managers, agents) and serve the people in the front of the stage, aka people. Some indies act like they are a caboose that needs to hook onto an engine and be pulled to a magical destination called ’success.” Even with all of the tools and services these days to help indies help themselves, they think they need someone or something else to help them “make it.” Sure, it takes money to conduct a full time music career, but artists spend too much time trying to catch a whale (a record deal) and neglect the minnows surrounding their feet (people). Music is the means to an end, not the end. The end is people. Serving the people. Being a public servant. If artists would get this concept into their hearts, not only will creativity be unleashed and amazing content be created, provision for their music mission will also come their way, because the act of service naturally brings many returns. In the Christian world, you cannot chase God and mammon. At least it’s written you’re not supposed to. The love of money is the root of all evil. The love of creation is the root of all good. Indies need to understand that concept.

Cannot it be a viable business that artists and labels can support themselves with or is it really more of a mission that hopefully pays for itself, at best?

I think if the motive behind the mission is service, provision comes. I have seen this in my mission since 1997. Indieheaven was never meant to be a business, I started it to serve artists. Over time, I have worked hard to improve our tools and services, artists have supported the site and organization. I have found if you provide a valuable service people need, they will pay for it. It goes back to the country club analogy I used earlier. There are many who like to golf, and you can go out to a local field and hit balls for free and lose 80% of them in the tall grass and have a good time and think you are a pro golfer. You can also go play the public course for $18 a round that is hacked up by duffers and hit balls off dirt and have 1 good game and think you are a pro golfer. Or, you can join the country club, enjoy the benefits of membership like playing golf on lush grass and well manicured greens and play with pro golfers. It’s your call how you want to play the game. I decided to create the country club. We’ll never have as many players as the public course has, but that’s OK. I’d rather have fewer players who took the game more seriously and worked towards turning pro. That’s my model.

I would say the same goes for a label or an artist. Create something of value, continue to seek improvement, put it out there and see if anyone wants to support it. Where it gets funky is when people have an M&M’s mentality and think they should get Godiva chocolate. In other words, they invest little and think they should see a huge return. It usually does not work that way. It’s like making soup. Put good ingredients in, and you make good soup.

How does the state of the music business in general (which the NY Times recently said would be dead in 10 years) impact the stability or growth of Christian music (i.e. what percentage of indie artists or labels are full time in their endeavors)?

You mean its not dead now? There will always be record labels, because there will always be artists who want to be on a record label. I read where one of our members was all excited because they had signed a deal with a “high profile” label out of Oklahoma. Oklahoma? Come on! The music capitol of the world is not Tulsa, OK! Artists think by signing with a label, any label, even one who has no track record and no credibility in the marketplace; it will make them better or of higher caliber. I call it being signed to “Pride Records.” Did you know Pride Records is the largest label in the world? It has millions of artists signed to it. Pride causes artists to do real foolish things. It’s like a whore who pays a rich man to have s-e-x because they think it will help them get better paying johns in the future. This does not compute. All it gets you is a disease. Many artists think by being on a label it will make their career easier. Hello? What they do not realize until they get in is it gets much tougher, because at that point, your career and your life stop being your own. Obligations, demands, and the trappings that go with it ruin many artistic creative lives. The King of Rock and Roll, and the King of Pop learned this the hard way. Fame is a nasty drug that kills.

What would be your advice to Christian artists who are just getting started and want to get their music and message out there?

I read the other day where someone asked why is it that many musicians who become a Christian thinks God has called them to be famous for Jesus and it’s going to be easy sailing? We are in an “idol making culture,” and the church and Christian artists for the most part have come along for the ride. Idols after all have much more fun than servants. I realized my salvation in Christ back in 1986 after being a hell raising s-e-x, drugs and rock and roller in bands in Baltimore, MD. After seeing the light, I thought I was supposed to go right out and use my musical genius to get people saved and be a full time musicianary. I had no formal ministry training, I was a marginal song writer, I was scared to death to sing and talk in front of people but I felt that was what I was supposed to do. What I did not consider was the notion that I was to be “good” at what I was doing. See, good does not enter into the equation when you are a Christian. Why is this? I think it is ignorance, and thinking God will somehow make up for our lack of goodness. Passion trumps quality most times when someone wants to be a Christian artist. The Bible is full of stories where God used people who were not good. But those stories are referring to character traits, not how good you are as a musician and minister. My favorite excuse I hear is that God used an ass one time to deliver a message to someone. Well, OK.. that makes sense to me now:) There is also another scripture passage that says play with skill. Most toss out that verse because skill and goodness are after all, subjective. (nonsense)

I wrote a tweet the other day that raised the feathers of a few musicians who follow me. It stated, “You don’t start in the board room, you start in the mail room.” What I meant by this was we think since God is on our side (only) that whatever we do we are to start at the top of the staircase, not at the bottom. All musicians suffer from this delusional mentality, Christian or mainstream. Most artists think they are great at what they are doing because they are poor at self evaluation. I say constantly seek improvement, ask professionals what they think (and pay them for their time, they owe you nothing) and work on getting better.

I was watching the Little League World Series the other day, and wow.. those kids play like pros. But they were not playing the game in Yankee Stadium, they were playing in Williamsport, PA. Some of these kids will end up playing in the new Yankee Stadium, some of them will play back in their own countries, and some will no longer play for various reasons. I say this to everyone reading this; play the game, but know which field you are to play the game on. If you are just starting out, you will not play in the pros. You will be in little league. Embrace this, and learn how to pitch and hit. If you are talented and you practice hard, over time, you will move up. You may play high school ball, get a college scholarship, and even get drafted and play in rookie ball. If you continue to improve and demonstrate you can get the job done, you may get into the major leagues. In all of this, you are playing the game. You start at the starting gate, not the finish line. I tell indies this all of the time, “Do the best you can and work hard at it, pray hard for it, and be content with what God is doing with it.” And that is the key to success.

Any additional insights or thoughts about the Christian music business or the music business in general that you’d like to convey?

We have a decision to make as leaders in the Christian music industry. Do we continue to play our game in a stadium that is crumbling, or do we build a new stadium and play a new game? What is the new game? In Christian music, we should be about a higher standard. Instead of looking at artists as cans of oil to lubricate the machinery, and artists who are looking to the industry as their sugar daddy, how about entering into mutual beneficial relationships where everyone can grow, be nurtured, and be fulfilled? When you love creation, provision will be there. Do it for the love of creating, and for service, and watch how God provides for everyone.

Let’s Be Independent… together!
keith mohr

I’ve been busy lately writing a book called MISSION:POSSIBLE. It’s something I have been meaning to do for awhile, but just haven’t had enough time, or desire, or both to get a “roundtoit.” However, recently, I have a new sense of urgency to write my book and tell my story. I recently hired a publicist to help me communicate the mission and vision of my Indieheaven organization. I have received quite an education on the importance of telling the story of your mission. Read the rest of this entry »

Wow, another year has flown by! Seems like just yesterday I was penning my first “No-Spin” column of 2008! When I think of what has happened over the past year, it boggles my little indie mind. A new president has been elected, gas prices went up to $4.17 and then down to $1.50 a gallon, and the economy is in a mess! I am glad I do not have a 401k plan. It would now be a 205 and a half plan! I wonder what 2009 will bring? Read the rest of this entry »