I recently gave an interview to Christopher Harding of “The Examiner”. I thought you would be interested in what I communicated concerning the Christian music industry, the indie scene and other interesting tidbits. Enjoy!
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How do you describe Indieheaven (what’s your elevator pitch)?
Indieheaven is the leading independent musician/artist resource agency serving thousands of indie artists non-stop since 1997. Indieheaven provides a comprehensive set of tools for bands, singers, songwriters, musicians to promote, market and distribute their music and display their content on a safe, professional, and established website.
Indieheaven’s reputation has been earned through impeccable service and attention to the needs of their members and customers. Indieheaven partners with its members to help them increase the scope of their music missions, providing ala carte label services, advanced content management/sales accounting systems and exclusive promotional opportunities. Indieheaven also provides an active community called The IH Network where members have full pass access to valuable content.
Indieheaven also is an online music store, where fans can purchase physical CDs, and digital songs/digital albums made available by members. Members are paid 100% of the gross sales of their music. Indieheaven is member supported, with no irrelevant or offensive advertising.
How did it come about?
I started my online musician resource/services/community in 1997 after realizing the internet would change the music business and empower artists to reach directly to the consumer. I also realized artists desired community and support services. I’ve always been one to herd cats (I used to bring strays home to my mother when I was a kid), so I figured if I put together a set of tools and services, the kitties would come for the milk. And lo and behold, they did! I am all about helping people succeed, so this is a natural passion for me. I saw a need, created the solution, and cultivated relationships. I still do this to this day.
Why should artists sign up?
Because Indieheaven provides the very best deal for independent artists period. Where else can they add unlimited content, sell their CDs, digital downloads and get ALL the sales income, get distribution to i-tunes, Amazon MP3 and many others as a free benefit of membership, and have at their disposal someone who speaks their language and wants to help them succeed without owning them or wrapping them up into contracts? Indieheaven is like a country club for serious golfers. Join it and come play on a really nice course.
Is it for any artist or Christian artists only?
We focus on the Christian artist. This does not mean we cater only to artists who play in churches and sing kum-ba-yah around a campfire eating smores. Our members span the gamut in their music. Some play in bars and clubs, some in churches, some in their basements. It’s all good. I had a satan worshiper once try to signup, he was very high in the satanic church of East L.A., but once he realized Indieheaven membership wasn’t free, he left post haste. By the way, he had no problem with Indieheaven promoting Christian music. We did have some interesting discussions. I almost got the guy saved:)
How would describe the state of Christian music today?
Well.. pretty much like the mainstream music business. It’s in a state of disarray as the business model of old does not work anymore. The Christian music industry patterned itself after the mainstream music industry. We all know the music industry has used artists as cans of oil to lubricate its machinery for years. And artists have used the industry as their sugar daddy for years. In my opinion, there should be a higher standard in Christian music. Sadly, there isn’t. It will not be until artist and industry understand prosperity and success come through mutual beneficial relationship. A “what’s in it for me, forget about you” mindset permeates the CCM industry because of fear and control. After years of worshiping the almighty dollar, the CCM industry is just about dead because the almighty has gone missing. This is a very hard statement that won’t win me many friends, but it is the truth. Talk to industry people, talk to artists, talk to studio cats, and they will tell you the level of greed and distrust in the business is very high. That saddens me, personally. This has nothing to do with being a Christian, or even Jesus Christ. It has everything to do with flawed human beings operating in a flawed system. It’s to be expected when your business model is based on mafia mob practices.
What genres within Christian music are doing the best in terms of sales and influence?
I know worship music has been the hot thing in CCM the past 5 years, as the church has been the main consumer of Christian music and that has kept the labels in business. That will run its course the next few years because there are only so many 4 chord worship songs and so many words that describe how Jesus loves me left. Most worship songs have melodies that can be sung by a second grader. I’m waiting for the backlash to start, where the church loathes worship music produced by the industry because of its lack of creativity. It’s coming. At least indie artists can produce what is on their hearts, which can be quite thought provoking and creatively compelling. Now, if we can get the indie artists to stop creating for the commercial arena and create for the love of creation. That’s for another question:)
How has the influence of major labels (and their having acquired some Christian labels over the last decade) affected the direction of Christian music for labels?
I do not operate in that world, but I’ve heard from former industry types the reason Christian labels partnered with mainstream labels was to increase funding, and increase the possibility that its product would “cross over” to the mainstream consumer. This has happened on a few occasions. Mercy Me’s song, “I Can Only Imagine,” and a few Michael W. Smith songs were mainstream hits. Switchfoot also had a hit with “Dare You To Move,” and Carrie Underwood’s song, “Jesus Take the Wheel” was a big song in the country industry. A good song will cross over if it connects with people and has the right promotion behind it. But for the most part, if a song is too “Christian” with too strong of language, it will be rejected by the mainstream. After all, the message of Jesus is quite offensive to those who do not yet believe. Even songs marketed to the CCM demographic have become “sugary” because of the fear Christians will reject it if the songs are not safe, happy, and promoting Christianity as a self help philosophy where God gives you everything you want, and keeps to Himself what you need. I’ve actually heard more straightforward Christian songs in the country world lately that say it like it is and bring home the goods. Life sucks, but there’s hope in Jesus!
How about for artists?
The age of the transparent dangling carrot is just about over. Labels no longer can promise artists the moon and deliver death valley. No longer will artists put themselves in a position to be abused by men in suits who control the artists content and direction and hold their intellectual property hostage if they don’t do what they tell them to do. Now, its the WWW, or the Wild, Wild West where every gun slinging, guitar playing cowboy/cowgirl can rope himself some fans if they are out on the range working the fields. Honestly, it’s a great time to be an independent artist, if.. and this is a big if.. if the artist works it. I see many indie artists who think working it is hanging on MySpace or Facebook all night taking silly quizzes and padding their friends lists. I see many artists with bad content screaming at the top of their lungs, “look what I can do,” when they should be off line learning how to play all 6 strings of a guitar and practicing their craft. Bigger has overtaken better for many online. How foolish, anyone with half a brain knows better brings bigger, not the other way around. The WWW has been a blessing and a curse. It provides the same platform for anyone with a desire to be a star a place to publish their content. However, there is very little great, a bit of good and a ton of mediocre music online. Remember the old days when the only people who knew the garage band down the street stunk were those who lived within earshot of the garage? Now, everyone knows!
What’s your take on the Independent Christian Music biz?
I am not anti-industry. I believe it has a place for some artists (who are ready for it) by providing credibility, and helps consumers discover new music by providing a filter mechanism. What really gets to me and is a pet peeve is artists who think they are ready for the industry when they aren’t. Artists spend way too much time telling the world how great they are, when they aren’t. I have been telling indie artists for a long time to stop chasing after the people in the back of the stage (ie: labels, managers, agents) and serve the people in the front of the stage, aka people. Some indies act like they are a caboose that needs to hook onto an engine and be pulled to a magical destination called ‘success.” Even with all of the tools and services these days to help indies help themselves, they think they need someone or something else to help them “make it.” Sure, it takes money to conduct a full time music career, but artists spend too much time trying to catch a whale (a record deal) and neglect the minnows surrounding their feet (people). Music is the means to an end, not the end. The end is people. Serving the people. Being a public servant. If artists would get this concept into their hearts, not only will creativity be unleashed and amazing content be created, provision for their music mission will also come their way, because the act of service naturally brings many returns. In the Christian world, you cannot chase God and mammon. At least it’s written you’re not supposed to. The love of money is the root of all evil. The love of creation is the root of all good. Indies need to understand that concept.
Cannot it be a viable business that artists and labels can support themselves with or is it really more of a mission that hopefully pays for itself, at best?
I think if the motive behind the mission is service, provision comes. I have seen this in my mission since 1997. Indieheaven was never meant to be a business, I started it to serve artists. Over time, I have worked hard to improve our tools and services, artists have supported the site and organization. I have found if you provide a valuable service people need, they will pay for it. It goes back to the country club analogy I used earlier. There are many who like to golf, and you can go out to a local field and hit balls for free and lose 80% of them in the tall grass and have a good time and think you are a pro golfer. You can also go play the public course for $18 a round that is hacked up by duffers and hit balls off dirt and have 1 good game and think you are a pro golfer. Or, you can join the country club, enjoy the benefits of membership like playing golf on lush grass and well manicured greens and play with pro golfers. It’s your call how you want to play the game. I decided to create the country club. We’ll never have as many players as the public course has, but that’s OK. I’d rather have fewer players who took the game more seriously and worked towards turning pro. That’s my model.
I would say the same goes for a label or an artist. Create something of value, continue to seek improvement, put it out there and see if anyone wants to support it. Where it gets funky is when people have an M&M’s mentality and think they should get Godiva chocolate. In other words, they invest little and think they should see a huge return. It usually does not work that way. It’s like making soup. Put good ingredients in, and you make good soup.
How does the state of the music business in general (which the NY Times recently said would be dead in 10 years) impact the stability or growth of Christian music (i.e. what percentage of indie artists or labels are full time in their endeavors)?
You mean its not dead now? There will always be record labels, because there will always be artists who want to be on a record label. I read where one of our members was all excited because they had signed a deal with a “high profile” label out of Oklahoma. Oklahoma? Come on! The music capitol of the world is not Tulsa, OK! Artists think by signing with a label, any label, even one who has no track record and no credibility in the marketplace; it will make them better or of higher caliber. I call it being signed to “Pride Records.” Did you know Pride Records is the largest label in the world? It has millions of artists signed to it. Pride causes artists to do real foolish things. It’s like a whore who pays a rich man to have s-e-x because they think it will help them get better paying johns in the future. This does not compute. All it gets you is a disease. Many artists think by being on a label it will make their career easier. Hello? What they do not realize until they get in is it gets much tougher, because at that point, your career and your life stop being your own. Obligations, demands, and the trappings that go with it ruin many artistic creative lives. The King of Rock and Roll, and the King of Pop learned this the hard way. Fame is a nasty drug that kills.
What would be your advice to Christian artists who are just getting started and want to get their music and message out there?
I read the other day where someone asked why is it that many musicians who become a Christian thinks God has called them to be famous for Jesus and it’s going to be easy sailing? We are in an “idol making culture,” and the church and Christian artists for the most part have come along for the ride. Idols after all have much more fun than servants. I realized my salvation in Christ back in 1986 after being a hell raising s-e-x, drugs and rock and roller in bands in Baltimore, MD. After seeing the light, I thought I was supposed to go right out and use my musical genius to get people saved and be a full time musicianary. I had no formal ministry training, I was a marginal song writer, I was scared to death to sing and talk in front of people but I felt that was what I was supposed to do. What I did not consider was the notion that I was to be “good” at what I was doing. See, good does not enter into the equation when you are a Christian. Why is this? I think it is ignorance, and thinking God will somehow make up for our lack of goodness. Passion trumps quality most times when someone wants to be a Christian artist. The Bible is full of stories where God used people who were not good. But those stories are referring to character traits, not how good you are as a musician and minister. My favorite excuse I hear is that God used an ass one time to deliver a message to someone. Well, OK.. that makes sense to me now:) There is also another scripture passage that says play with skill. Most toss out that verse because skill and goodness are after all, subjective. (nonsense)
I wrote a tweet the other day that raised the feathers of a few musicians who follow me. It stated, “You don’t start in the board room, you start in the mail room.” What I meant by this was we think since God is on our side (only) that whatever we do we are to start at the top of the staircase, not at the bottom. All musicians suffer from this delusional mentality, Christian or mainstream. Most artists think they are great at what they are doing because they are poor at self evaluation. I say constantly seek improvement, ask professionals what they think (and pay them for their time, they owe you nothing) and work on getting better.
I was watching the Little League World Series the other day, and wow.. those kids play like pros. But they were not playing the game in Yankee Stadium, they were playing in Williamsport, PA. Some of these kids will end up playing in the new Yankee Stadium, some of them will play back in their own countries, and some will no longer play for various reasons. I say this to everyone reading this; play the game, but know which field you are to play the game on. If you are just starting out, you will not play in the pros. You will be in little league. Embrace this, and learn how to pitch and hit. If you are talented and you practice hard, over time, you will move up. You may play high school ball, get a college scholarship, and even get drafted and play in rookie ball. If you continue to improve and demonstrate you can get the job done, you may get into the major leagues. In all of this, you are playing the game. You start at the starting gate, not the finish line. I tell indies this all of the time, “Do the best you can and work hard at it, pray hard for it, and be content with what God is doing with it.” And that is the key to success.
Any additional insights or thoughts about the Christian music business or the music business in general that you’d like to convey?
We have a decision to make as leaders in the Christian music industry. Do we continue to play our game in a stadium that is crumbling, or do we build a new stadium and play a new game? What is the new game? In Christian music, we should be about a higher standard. Instead of looking at artists as cans of oil to lubricate the machinery, and artists who are looking to the industry as their sugar daddy, how about entering into mutual beneficial relationships where everyone can grow, be nurtured, and be fulfilled? When you love creation, provision will be there. Do it for the love of creating, and for service, and watch how God provides for everyone.
Let’s Be Independent… together!
keith mohr
Here’s the story on how I ended up pitching batting practice for the Orioles in 1980.
I have been thinking alot lately about “rings of influence.” It’s like a Bullseye, with your innermost core being the red center, and outer rings radiating from the center. Relationships in the inner core are those who you know the best, and those who really know you. That could be family, business associates, and close friends. Going outward from the center, the next ring would consist of those you know, but not very well, and those who have a working knowledge of you. Next ring would be those you do not know, but those who know about you, like a fan, or people who learn about you. For example, I have on my email list about 50,000 people. They all know about Indieheaven, many know who I am, but I do not know most of those people. And outside of that ring would be the rest of the universe. People you do not know, and those who do not know about you.